August 29, 2007

Disturbing

Thanks to my readers from pointing out this comment Debbie Maken added to her latest post at her blog:
Just an FYI, my husband and I both changed each other for the better. He was quite the metrosexual, well read, well schooled, geo-politically inclined businessman when I met him, and some of his bourgeois tendencies rubbed off on me. It was I who changed on the social adeptness front, and I am so glad everytime we go to the Naples Ritz Carlton for weekend trips and take all of our many luxury vacations. And yes, if I could recommend to women elsewhere to follow my path and land a wonderful Indian Christian like my husband, I would gladly do it. Because guess what, my husband because of Indianness (which you think is synonymous with socially awkward behaviour), is actually brilliant enough to make money in very creative ways, so that I can be a stay at home mom in one of the most expensive zip codes in the country. (Figured out yet why jobs are floating away to India???; there are some major clues in here for you-- grow up, quit blaming others, get a real education with real earning potential, have a vision for success that is outside of the box of what either the church sells you (in its excuse of mediocrity for false piety) or what Wall Street/government sells you, get married and have children, so that the population increases and so does trade). Just remember, there is going to be another name for the socially awkward boy-- "boss."

Marriage and achieving it isn't supposed to be a fairy tale. (Yet another faulty assumption, you intellectual buffoon). It is a serious venture for those who have the maturity and internal fortitude to weather its storm and labor to make the "sweet honey of life." My road may not be the one traveled by many in the West, but it is one that actually achieves marriage to an "equally yoked" partner. I tried your serendipitous fairy tale route, and it got me redneck wannabes, poor men justifying their professions with spirituality, men with legitimate degress that didn't want to succeed in real careers but flirt with serial temporary employment, men with serious debt and money mismangement issues, men who were well below the par. So, anon, men have changed greatly in the last forty years. But I am sure that the Feminists and their inroads into churches made them all such unaccountable, unanchored, socially boring, late blooming bachelors.
Weekend trips at the Naples Ritz Carlton?!!! Take note, my friends--I quote from the ESV (put out by Debbie Maken's publisher):
"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world." (1 John 2:15-16) [emphasis mine]
It is astounding and sad. We have seen the fruit of the marriage mandate movement and it is truly disturbing. I have serious concerns about Mrs. Maken's spiritual condition and pray that she will get in a right relationship with God before it is too late. Albert Mohler, Boundless (and Focus on the Family), Crossway Books (and Good News Publishers), Tim Challies, Alex Chediak, and others who have endorsed Mrs. Maken need to rethink their position and reflect on how their endorsement may have a negative impact on their witness as Bible believers.

POSTSCRIPT:

By the way, in the main post, Mrs. Maken mentions something about Hosea and Gomer, implying that men need to redeem women from their plight. I wonder if the marriage mandate movement would allow for men to (a) not take a wife because the culture is doomed (see Jeremiah) or (b) refuse to morn the passing of their wives if they should die (see Ezekiel). Anyway, for more on this point, see Puritan Calvinist's response to Mrs. Maken.

20 Comments:

Anonymous knightwatch said...

Yes, it is disturbing. Debbie is in need of much prayer and counseling from church authority. It's ironic and sad that the materialism/ hedonism Debbie blames for man's protracted singleness and immaturity, continues for herself in marriage. I suppose Debbie's husband needs to redeem his wife from her plight. The threads from the quilt (Ms. Maken's book) are starting to unravel before our eyes thanks to the use of the wrong needle (her blog).

8/30/07, 6:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Debbie attacks anon with a lot of ad hominem attacks and misrepresentations. He responds to her:

"Debbie,

I have to admit you are a skilled attorney. You've managed to turn much of what I said into something that was never intended.

I know you disagree with everything I've said and have launched into personal attacks against my "kind of men". Many of us men who disagree with you are married and earn good salaries, yet we see women taking marriage less seriously. If you were honest, you'd admit that your profession feeds on divorce and leftist social trends are part of this.

Denying reality simply because you dated a few guys who didn't work for you is dishonest. There are a great many good and decent men who are putting off marriage because they have seen the wreckage caused by no-fault divorce.

There is no duty to marry no matter how hard you try and tease one out of scripture. I'm happy in my marriage, but many men are trapped in marriages which are sexless and unhappy. But this is due to men's failings, right?

The fact that women initiate 87% of divorces. This is due to men's failings, correct?

Stop the childish lawyering talk and simply be honest for a change. Your book may be good fodder for bitter spinsters looking for someone to blame for their poor life choices, but much of it is wrong; and you know this is true.

Emotionally charged opinion wrapped in carefully selected scriptures doesn't create "fact".

I think it is worthy to look at your motivations and realize you aren't interested in exploring whether or not your message is truly biblical. It is about selling books to a vast audience of unmarried and desperate women. Biblical truth isn't part of it.

Of course you'll make quick work of what I've said without responding to the particulars. If I was a judge hearing your arguments, I'd slap a contempt charge on you for refusing to answer the court on key issues and using hearsay and conjecture as fact. You know better than this counselor, and most of us know how dishonest you are.

I'll look for your next book: "Getting Serious about Misusing Scripture: The Marriage Mandate Strikes Back."

8/30/07, 6:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about addressing the fact that she was responding to an attack on her husband????

Talk about about misrepresentation and ad hominem attacks.

8/30/07, 7:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I might be giving the chance to play Devil's Advocate:

...and I am so glad everytime we go to the Naples Ritz Carlton for weekend trips and take all of our many luxury vacations...

That sentence sounded like Maken was being overly facetious. Anyone else read into it otherwise?

8/30/07, 8:27 AM  
Anonymous singleman said...

I agree Debbie Maken may have been a bit facetious in some of her remarks, but the overall tone is still quite disturbing.

I wonder when, or if, Boundless will reconsider its support of Mrs. Maken. Better yet, does Dr. James Dobson read any of the stuff on the Boundless website and does he approve of it? After all, Boundless is affiliated with Focus on the Family. As Debbie Maken's positions and usage of Scripture are discredited, it will ultimately be Dr. Dobson's name which will be damaged by his ministry's endorsement of Mrs. Maken's views.

8/30/07, 9:30 AM  
Anonymous vikram erandawane said...

"How about addressing the fact that she was responding to an attack on her husband????

Talk about about misrepresentation and ad hominem attacks."

An attack? No, Debbie herself tells us her husband was unacceptable to her until she and his mother talked him into regular washing, facials and other "metrosexual" behaviors. When he was effectively neutered, he became husband material.

If you knew Indian culture, you'd laugh at the silly Maken nonsense. The woman is a nightmare for Christianity. Her promotion of "many luxury vacations" is total Brahmin arrogance.

Just more of the same: "look what we have, God loves us, not you losers." That is exactly the tone she is presenting. If any women are still defending Debbie Maken, you girls need to go find some psychiatric medication immediately.

Maken's advice is not biblical or realistic and will keep long-suffering single women single a lot longer.

8/30/07, 10:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anakin says:

"It is astounding and sad. We have seen the fruit of the marriage mandate movement and it is truly disturbing. I have serious concerns about Mrs. Maken's spiritual condition and pray that she will get in a right relationship with God before it is too late"

I'm not sure whether you are mocking Christian culture's "let's pray for so and so" thing, or whether you really want us to believe that you are actually praying for Maken, or any other women along the spectrum of those "rethinking the gift of singleness". I agree that it was crass of her to boast about her luxury lifestyle, but dontcha think it's a little late to start billing yourself as some kind of caring, prayer chain co-ordinator?

8/30/07, 10:59 AM  
Blogger Ted Slater said...

Anakin -- you wrote:

"By the way, in the main post, Mrs. Maken mentions something about Hosea and Gomer, implying that men need to redeem women from their plight. I've seen this abuse of the text by others (at Boundless, if I recall correctly)."

I've searched our entire archives, and found only three references to Gomer:

http://www.boundless.org/2000/departments/pages/a0000233.html

http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001360.cfm

http://www.boundless.org/2005/articles/a0001306.cfm

I don't see how any of these articles "abuse" the Scriptures. Please either point out where we've published heresy, or humbly apologize for being so eager to slander Boundless.

8/30/07, 11:31 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

any supporter of debbie maken is promoting the devils lies.

8/30/07, 11:45 AM  
Anonymous vikram erandawane said...

I'm a somewhat late arrival to this debate, but I have to admit, the Captain Sensible blog is almost (but not quite) as nutty as Debbie's book.

Captain Sensible is now saying Debbie Maken is a prophet of God, raised up as a perfected individual "in such a time as this".

Excuse me? What???

I know Captain Sensible finds Maken much more important than Jesus, but it almost sounds as though a new religion is being created.

Call it FeminIslam...the religion of the perfected prophet Debbie Maken, who teaches that all women are innocent perfect beings; and of course 99.99% of men are evil, filthy, lazy fools.

Perhaps Captain Sensible can set up the first mosque for Feminislam in the UK. Millions of bitter spinsters can join, all praising Debbie Maken.

8/30/07, 11:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've read Debbie's comments. The "anon" commenter has her pegged. Maken is absolutely a good attorney; she twists meanings, builds straw men then uses emotional counterattacks, and consistently impugns the motives of those who dare to question her ideas.

It is no wonder her followers worship her; she seems an almost messianic feminist figure. She stands up for female empowerment, career and independence, all while arguing that rich attractive men should be falling over themselves trying to win the hands of these modern career chicks.

It is rather funny, but I do have sympathy for the women who have guaranteed a lifetime of singleness for themselves through their slavish devotion to Maken's theories.

8/30/07, 12:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Slater, You amaze me. The racism, the mockery, the name-calling of Maken does not bother you but look how quickly you jump in if Boundless is "slandered"

8/30/07, 1:42 PM  
Anonymous vikram erandawane said...

There is no racism here. My goodness, such an easy lie to throw around, isn't it?

Only liberal white idiots resort to the cries of "racism" when a person with dark skin is called out for talking nonsense.

There is no racism against Maken. However, she deserves all the mockery she can get.

I'm almost about to set up an anti-Maken blog specifically to address her misrepresentations and her obvious promotion of Indian traditionalism. I wonder how long it would take for people to call me out as a racist? One second? Two?

Of course I'm much darker than Maken, so if I disagree with her I'm just a nigger saying stupid things. Isn't that right, you enlightened white liberal defenders of Maken?

8/30/07, 2:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Vikram - I actually don't believe for a moment you are Indian.
And as for "Boundless", well, "Spineless" would be more like it!

8/30/07, 3:30 PM  
Blogger Ted Slater said...

Anonymous -- two things:

1) I commented elsewhere on Debbie's post: http://singlechristian.wordpress.com/2007/08/30/debbie-maken-in-her-own-words/#comments -- it's comment #5.

2) You consider Boundless to be "Spineless"? That's a pretty ironic comment coming from someone hiding behind a pseudonym. Why do you consider us "spineless," anyway?

8/30/07, 3:37 PM  
Blogger Hermes said...

Ted, I don't see your comment in that thread; comment #5 is from someone going by the name "single.certain". Maybe singlechristianman deleted it or hasn't approved it yet? Although what single.certain said is roughly what I'd hope you'd say about Debbie's latest post :).

8/30/07, 3:59 PM  
Blogger Anakin Niceguy said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8/30/07, 6:46 PM  
Blogger Anakin Niceguy said...

Hi Ted,

I must had have some different posts in mind at Boundless Line. I have accordingly put up a retraction to clarify things. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

Take care.

8/30/07, 8:01 PM  
Blogger Ted Slater said...

Thank you for taking the time to look into the mixup, Anakin. I'm still concerned that you harbor an illegitimate animosity toward Boundless, something I elaborate on in my comment on your "retraction."

8/31/07, 8:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

it seems to me that everyone has let page 94 of Maken's nonsense slip into oblivion. She talks about how most black women find black males untrustworthy and reliable without a single shred of evidence. No statistical data, no surveys, no personal talks with a number of black women...nothing! I am angered at her sterotypical assumptions, which again is not backed with some kind of proof that HER claims about black women disliking black men true. racism. im done.

4/20/09, 3:23 PM  

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